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ACRE 1998 December


  • ACRE 1998 December

    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:09:33 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: Another 13B Long-EZ.

    Perry Mick wrote:

    Dear Paul Lamar:

    can you add me to your email list? I've installed a stock 13b in a
    Long-EZ. Soon ready for first flight.


    Perry Mick

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    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:14:23 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: The Joys of Certified Flight!

    [email protected] wrote:

    Ah, the joy of having a "certified" airplane!

    After I bought my Velocity kit in November of 96, my friendly Avemco insurance
    agent "advised" me to log about another 200 hours before I completed the kit
    to make my insurance ever so much cheaper. Well, that plus Tracy Crook
    bringing that neat little RV-3 humming around here giving me the "bug". So I
    broke down and bought a C-172.

    Ah, the joy of knowing that I am flying behind one the most prolific airplanes
    ever built. The comfort of knowing there are probably millions of Skyhawk
    hours logged the world over. The peace of mind knowing that big brother is
    always watching out for me, taking care of me, always on the lookout for new
    problems to solve to make my life better, faster, safer.

    What was I thinking with this *EXPERIMENTAL* crap anyway? Why try to build
    something when all I have to do is walk over to the FBO, write a check and get
    an airplane that meets all government standards and specifications? No muss,
    no fuss, no itchy arms, no greasy finger nails and I get to fly it right NOW!

    To top off all that insanity, I actually wanted to put a MAZDA engine in my
    plane to boot! Boy! What was I smoking! All the research, all the refinement,
    all of the evolution that Lycoming and Continental have put into their little
    jewels over the last fifty years. I wanted to throw all that security away for
    a MAZDA!? What the hell is the matter with me anyway?

    I bought my Cessna in early March of 97. On December 23 of 97, I was blessed
    with my forth AD in nine months. Man, if all you weirdo "experimentalists"
    could only know the bliss I feel right now knowing how well protected I am.


    You ain't just whistling Dixie!


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    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:18:00 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: Stock Mazda ECU

    TERF Email wrote:

    How can I put this gently. Were do you want your cemetery plot. You
    CAN NOT use the stock processor for this application. I have extensive
    experience with these things. Besides the fact that they do fail fairly
    often, they do error checking on ALL of the factory installed components
    (emissions especially, stuff you don't want on your plane) and go randomly
    into "limp home mode" if it finds anything wrong. Your airplane won't fly
    in limp home mode. You want to KNOW what the computer regulating the most
    critical system in your plane is going to do always. Not what Mazda had
    programmed in to accommodate the air-conditioning kicking in or some such
    nonsense. They (as you know) also don't do altitude compensation to the
    extent necessary for an aircraft. This is one area you DON'T want to be
    cheep. Wait and save your money for the right parts. It will be cheaper
    than the casket.

    I don't want to seem too dramatic here but I have lost a couple of
    friend recently to stunts like this.

    Sincerely Matthew Tait

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    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:30:04 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: Stock Mazda ECU

    Paul Yaw wrote:

    Thought I would add my two cents worth. The stock computer does not
    read the oxygen sensor once the throttle position goes past about 50%
    The oxygen sensor is only accurate in a very narrow range on either side
    of stoichiometric. (14.7:1) Since a "power" mixture needs to be richer
    than this, the computer will make its decisions based on input from the
    air flow meter, or in the case of a '93-'95 twin turbo, manifold
    pressure. The system will actually run just fine without the O2 sensor,
    but the mixture at idle and cruise will be a bit rich. When I say
    cruise, I mean as it would apply to an automobile. (15 to 60 hp. range)

    The purpose of the O2 sensor is to supply the computer with highlty
    accurate mixture quality sensing at very low flow where the air flow
    meter has poor poor resolution.

    Paul Yaw

    That's very interesting information Paul. How did you find that out?
    Most domestic manufacturers are very secretive about this kind of
    information. I would love to see the source code to an ECU.
    I guess one could disconnect the O2 sensor on the dyno and see
    if the mixture changed.

    I stand corrected. I always assumed the ECU used the O2 data
    throughout the power range.

    Knowing this solves a lot of problems for the aircraft crowd.

    Can you share any tidbits of info on the knock sensors?
    I am doing my best to gather info on these jewels.

    Thanks for the info.


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    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:50:04 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    CC: Dave Martin <[email protected]>, Ray Caldwell 2 <[email protected]>
    Subject: Rotory in Mini 500

    P.A. Williamson wrote:


    Myself, and a few of my friends, are having a small (as in getting
    killed) problem with a kit helicopter we enjoy. I'm sure you've seen
    it... the Mini500. What's happening is that stinkin' Rotax is going tits
    up at the worst time...about 50 to 100 ft AGL. Two guys I've met through
    the rotory newsgroup have lost their lives and one friend (about 10
    miles from me) almost bit it last summer when his froze-up at 30' agl.
    He was lucky in that he had a fresh plowed field under him.

    The helicopter isn't a "bad" design. It does have a few problems, but
    most are being worked out by a handful of guys that want to see this
    machine fly.

    Our "biggest" problem is that dang Rotax. Well, after reading about
    what you guys are doing with the 13B and mainly after seeing how *you*
    felt about it (yes, I remember how strong your stance is against auto
    conversions... I respect that VERY much) I was hoping the rotory would
    be an intellegent replacement for that killer 582.

    Would you consider giving it a look and letting us know what you

    Several are doing very spendy turbine conversions. While this is very
    cool, it's wayyyy out of my price range. They are of around 100-150 shp.

    Some are replacing the two blade rotors with 5 blade systems so these
    folks are most serious about fixing the aircraft (the owner of the
    company as dropped the ball..BIG TIME).

    Anyhow, just thought I'd ask.

    On the Linux front. Got one GUI with a browser going (called KDE) but
    I don't care much for it. I'm hoping to get a responce from some friends
    about getting Netscape (or it's Linux/Unix replacement, Mozilla)
    installed. I'll send you some private e-mail on how that goes.

    Take care


    A one rotor Mazda would be if it were not quite so heavy.
    A German Wankel is expensive but it might be cheaper
    than a turbine.

    Ray Caldwell CEO of Skystar is an old Can Am racing friend. He has some
    clout with 2Si. He, Dave Martin and I have been talking about
    this since last Sun & Fun. Nothing seems to be getting done however.

    The best I can do is refer you to Steve Parkman at Swag Aero.
    See the link on the RE NL web site.
    He too has been in the loop. So far Steve has installed
    EFI on several two strokes. IMHO the real need is for an
    EGT sensor.

    Unfortunately Swag Aero uses a low cost off-the-shelf
    GM computer and it does not support an EGT sensor.
    Never-the-less EFI sans EGT is much better than a
    carb in this regard.

    I have also mentioned adding an EGT sensor to Tracy
    on his computer.


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    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:00:36 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: Yet another 13B Long-EZ.

    Please add me to your Rotary Engine Newsletter mailing list. I am currently
    building a Long Ez which I plan to put a 1988 13B engine in it with a Ross

    Thank You.

    Mike Perry

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    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:09:57 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: Rotory in Mini 500

    George Moore wrote:


    Although most of the Mini 500 deaths have been blamed on seizures of
    the Rotax engine, what is really coming to light, now that the remaining
    owner / builder / pilots are communicating with each other, is that the
    Rotax 582 is a great engine but just doesn't have the necessary power
    for the airframe it is trying to support.

    With the great majority of remaining owners seeking higher
    horsepower, light weight engines, my Rotary engine antenna extends.
    Unfortunately they are all blinded by Joe Rinkes Turbine application
    using a commercial jet APU turbine. I think the Single Rotor or Wankel
    of Germany's small lightweight 2 rotor engines would be perfect for this
    machine. I even considered that The doubled horsepower of a 13B would
    easily offset the increased weight of this engine, but I'm sure the
    frame would require reinforcement to handle the additional torque.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really believe in the Wankel
    design and would love to see it break ground in rotorcraft as well as in
    the fixed wing market. With all of the bad press the Mini 500 has
    suffered in the last year, can you imagine what a coup, a successful
    replacement with a Rotary engine would be ! Just wishful thinking I
    guess ? But the increased usage by the Gyro community gives me hope.


    What ever happened in that flurry of law suites?


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    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:21:57 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: Rotory in Mini 500

    George Moore wrote:

    Dennis Fetters (Mini 500 CEO) initially won the suit and Joe Rinke
    wasn't even allowed to fly his own helicopter, but in a later trial that
    restriction was lifted and now he is selling his Turbine engine
    conversion kits on his RinkeAerospace web site. No where in his ad is
    the Mini 500 even mentioned. His Turbine kit is advertised as suitable
    for any small kit or homebuilt helicopter. There is always a loophole

    This really is a neat machine, but deadly in its present
    configuration ! I have become email friends with about a half dozen
    Mini owners and I am always trying to get them to at least consider the
    Rotary engine as well as the turbine.


    The Aircraft Rotary Engine Newsletter. Powered by Linux.

    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:24:56 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: Rotory in Mini 500

    Gary C. Buster LPT wrote:

    I have another source for you to consider regarding the Rotary on your
    helicopter... take the time to contact Mr. Gary Dietering at Air Command
    Gyrocopters to discuss his Rotorway ship(s) he has built with the 13B's. He has even created a "black box" to keep the blades at
    constant speed to reduce one of the pilot tasks!! (Originally designed as an
    autopilot for drone purposes!) As of last Tuesday, he reported having
    about 9 hours flown off of his current ship. Gary is the resident guru for
    the Mazda tandem gyro application... he obviously has lots of other helpful
    hints on how to run an airworthy ship!!! (he's the one that showed me
    how/why to replumb my oil lines to the Ross PSRU and stopped my oil leaks
    past the seal!!! (FINALLY!!))

    Gary C. Buster LPT
    [email protected]
    Tyler, Texas

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    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:57:15 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: Small Rotary

    [email protected] wrote:

    Paul and group, Does anyone know how to get in touch w/the builder of
    the Savauro rotarys in Israel ?

    Have a nice Christmas and a great New Year.Stan



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    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:59:45 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: Rotory in Mini 500

    [email protected] wrote:

    (he's the one that showed me > how/why to replumb my oil lines to the Ross PSRU and stopped my oil leaks
    > past the seal!!! (FINALLY!!))
    > Gary C. Buster LPT

    Gary, could you explain the mentioned replumb???
    Thanks in advance,
    Tommy James

    I think Tracy's book has something to say on this subject as well.


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    Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:09:02 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: My vacation

    I am going to try to get to Florida for a few days.
    Flying stand by so I am not sure.

    I will try to drop in on Tracy about Saturday.

    Please hold those cards and letters so things don't back
    up too much.


    The Aircraft Rotary Engine Newsletter. Powered by Linux.

    Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 06:19:16 -0800
    From: Paul <[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: Bosche Mechanical Fuel Injection.

    Gerry Hess wrote:

    From: Paul <[email protected]>

    rtf's that a new one on me Netscape will not vierw that.
    can you convert it to a jpg or gif?

    How about HTML? It's a Wordperfect document but I thought Rich Text format
    was Windows generic.

    HTML is good Gerry. A real world wide standard. I don't do Windows.

    MS is always coming up with new so-called "standards" to kill
    everybody else in the computer business and to promote psuedo
    "upgrades". "We want to be your phone company." :-)

    Thanks for the info. Here it is. Shutting down last message.


    Merry Christmas

    "Bosch K-Basic and K-Lambda Fuel System

    This system was stock on a 1600 CC 4 cylinder Rabbit engine, I believe
    it was about an '78-80 engine, but in various
    configurations with or without oxygen sensor(lambda)

    I feel that the issue in matching a fuel system with an engine is not
    displacement so much as horsepower. Horsepower is a
    function of airflow (CFM). An engine of comparable horsepower will
    generally work fine with the carb from another. A
    rotary will probably put out around 70 to 100 HP with a volumetric
    displacement of about 1700cc. which is very
    comparable to the Rabbit. (max against max). The CFM is therefore going
    to be very comparable. In a nutshell the system
    works like this. There is a tapered throat through which air flows on
    it's way to the intake ports. Sort of a funnel shape, but
    not so extreme. A round metal plate rests in the bottom of the funnel.
    The throttle is above the funnel ( that is between the
    funnel and the engine ). When the throttle is opened the airflow lifts
    the plate and allows air to flow around it. The more
    the airflow the higher the plate lifts, and the larger the gap for
    airflow. This plate is attached to a counterbalanced arm, and
    near the pivot point of the arm the arm is attached to a valve which
    opens as the arm moves. The more airflow there is, the
    more the plate lifts, and the more the arm lifts the valve which is
    similar to a hydraulic control valve (spool type valve).
    The valve of course controls fuel flow to the injectors. Fuel is
    supplied by an electric pump at about 70 psi. The only
    additional systems are a primer which is electrically operated and gives
    a shot of fuel to assist in starting, (this could be
    manually operated by a push button), and a control pressure regulator
    which senses engine coolant temp, and increases
    pressure slightly as temp increases. The control pressure regulator
    supplies fuel to the end of the spool valve, and provides
    resistance against the force opening the valve. The result is that at
    low temperature you have lower fuel pressure and the
    valve opens more easily allowing a slightly richer mixture (choke
    effect). The control pressure circuit could easily be
    manually controlled by a cockpit dial connected to a fuel pressure
    regulator for in-flight mixture control. I am just using a
    off the shelf fuel pressure regulator available at performance shops,
    and set to the best egt reading. Bear in mind that the
    Bosch system is lean at high pressure and rich at low pressure. For
    better fuel volume if required there are hundreds of Bosch
    injectors in their catalog cheap. A Porsch injector cracks at 2.3 bar
    versus Rabbit's 2.6 bar and the lower crack pressure means
    more fuel flow.

    Due to the air mass lifting the plate to operate the fuel valve, this
    system is inherently altitude compensating.

    The injectors are constant flow, so doubling them up would pose no
    problems as it would with timed injection.

    There is a fuel accumulator that is in line with the pump and must be
    used to smooth out pump pulses. This is a important item.

    The system meters fuel flow into airflow, so it should work with most
    any small engines.. It should provide the ideal 14 x
    1 air fuel ratio which is ideal for any engine. The issue would probably
    be idle air volume which is controlled by an air
    bypass circuit of. It is all pretty simple, and was built by Bosch and
    used on many cars including VW, Saab, Audi, and
    others. Probably the simplest most dependable and low maintenance fuel
    injection system ever built. The only thing that
    ever bothers is the fuel regulator valve which if poor gas is used has
    been known to become sticky from varnish. The dealers
    were likely to replace them and charge a bundle of money when all that
    is needed is to remove the spool, and carefully clean
    it (no abrasives, carburetor cleaner, and a piece of paper). I've never
    known anybody who had this problem, and I've been
    around a few of them. I suspect it can be prevented by occasionally
    adding fuel injection additive to the fuel.

    The above problem is not a common problem, just the only problem I've
    ever heard of with this system except fuel pump
    failure which is common to all systems, and in aircraft you should set
    up a backup fuel pump. Both potential failure points
    are minimized by using good fuel & filters, and changing filters
    regularly ( important to pump life ).

    There are no vacuum lines except the one to the distributer to operate
    the advance. The injectors open from 2.1 - 3.2 bar. To
    get increased fuel delivery the Porsch 911 injectors will fit, and you
    may want to make up a fuel block to flow two injector
    lines into one, so you can use only two injectors in the intake(s). The
    intake manifold should be at least 24" long. 1.75" U
    bend exhaust pipe works well.

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    Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 06:06:01 -0800
    From: Paul <r[email protected]>
    To: zz <[email protected]>
    Subject: TWIN VELOCITY

    [email protected] wrote:

    Is it a center mount double arrangement engine or a 12b on each wing? I've
    seen one based on an British twin pusher, flying, I think, with dual Nortons.

    Was publish in EAA mag, if I had a scanner I would send it to you. Looked real

    I have never seen a double mount rotary on any airplane.
    Yes I remember that dual Norton/Midwest rotary airplane.
    Looked good.

    I would use dual 13B's on something like a Velocity XL for extra large.
    They are only a little heavier than 12A's.

    Dual Mazda rotaries would be a bit heavy for most canards.


    BTW shutting down for a few days. Second to last message :-)

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